August 6, 2018 This interview is almost four years old. But on my understanding the
topic of it is still very vital not only for the population of a Baltic Sea
region but for the whole Europe including my Ukraine as well. It could be
formulated in a following way: ”Could it be that we are
approaching a Cold War II? And if so, what does that mean to a country like
Sweden?”. All question asked by VICE.COM were very sharp and straightforward. A heavy burden of answering was
placed on Tomas Ries, who worked in 2014 as a lecturer at the Department
of Security, Strategy and Leadership at the National Defense College in
Stockholm.
Tomas
Ries. Photo by Rickard Kilström
VICE: Why is
the Russian military behaving so aggressive in the Baltic Sea?
Tomas Ries: There are different interpretations about why. One essential thing is that
Russia has a ten-year plan to build up their military forces. So they are
increasing their military budget to an extreme extend, which means that there
are more Russian forces in and around the Baltics than ever.
But a main reason is that
Russia is sending a message to the outside world, saying that the
"old" Europe is over. What I mean with that is that the thing with
NATO and EU dictating everything – with EU preaching [to Russia] about things
such as, democracy and respect for human rights – isn't something that Russia
will agree to anymore. Putin wants to emphasize that this era is over and that
it's important to understand that Russia is strong. And that we [the rest of
the world] need to respect their requests. I think that's the fundamental
answer to Russia's behavior in the Baltic Sea.
But if you want to look at
each case individually, it's obvious that Putin dislikes when Finland and
Sweden cooperate with NATO. That means that Russia is sending signals that it
could get dangerous if you operate military exercises with NATO. For example,
they simulated a nuclear attack against Sweden at the same time as Sweden had
NATO operations.
You could also question their
actions as if they're testing the readiness of the Swedish military. They're
using classic tactics that they used during the Cold War era, when they would
fly close to the border, or precisely over the border to see what kind of
surveillance system Sweden has and how fast the military will react.
Could you interpret their
actions as a build-up to a Cold War II?
I think it's problematic to
use analogies like that because it's different nowadays. But one thing is
similar: Russia is going back to their old European security agenda as an
independent player with interests that often differ from the rest of the world
– for example the ongoing war in Ukraine. So we're going back to a Europe where
the tension between Russia and the rest of Europe escalates and where Russia
will increasingly use their growing military capacity.
What exactly does it mean when
Russia violates Swedish airspace? And what can Sweden do about it?
It's a very serious action
basically. It means that they're violating Sweden's territorial integrity.
Sweden's answer to an air violation is to show Sweden's defense resources by
sending out fighter jets to dismiss Russia's actions. Afterwards Sweden will send
a diplomatic message, explaining that Russia's behaviour is not appreciated.
Russian
fighter jet SU-27 closing up on a Swedish signals intelligence plane. Photo by FRA
How serious is it to simulate
a nuclear attack against another country?
To violate airspace is one
thing but to simulate a nuclear attack against another country – even if you
don't violate airspace – is something I interpret as very serious and
enormously unfriendly. What scare me the most about the Baltic Sea situation is
events like this.
What's Sweden's relationship
with Russia like?
If you look at it
historically, and go back to the Cold war, you will see that Sweden has always
been something of a disguised partner with NATO. Sweden would have taken NATO's
side if a war broke out. Russia looked at Sweden as a false player, someone who
would be on their main enemies' side if war became reality. This is still
virtually how Russia sees Sweden today.
You could also add that Carl
Bildt, our former Minister of Foreign Affairs, brought an activist foreign
policy relating to Russia. He was openly critical to Russia on many occasions,
which also had an effect on their view on Sweden.
What can we do to stop their
actions in the Baltic Sea?
This is part of Russia's new
action pattern. I don't think it's possible to get them to quit their behavior.
The important thing is not these individual incidents, but rather the long-term
military power shift in Europe.
What do you think will happen
during this long-term power shift?
Well, we know for sure that
Russia started a serious rearmament back in 2011. And their military power is
going to grow substantially during the next ten years. This means that we will
once again have a very big power right next to us. Russia wants to make a new
balance in Europe, where the countries in Europe need to respect Russia. It's
probable that Russia will use military actions against, what they think are
important areas. Europe is currently almost entirely disarmed when it comes to
military defenses. Europe as one has one of the world's largest defense
budgets, which isn't used, except for in a few countries close to Russia's
borders. They are serious about their defense. Sweden has completely
disassembled their defense capabilities. That obviously increases a chance of
pressure from Russia.
What would happen if Russia
made reality of their intentions now when Sweden doesn't have a defense?
I can't speculate on that. But
what I can say is that Sweden isn't that vulnerable as you may think – we have
Finland, the Baltic countries, and the Baltic Sea between us. However, Gotland
[a Swedish island to the East] is very vulnerable. An attack with today's
politics is very unlikely. What is likely, is that one of the Baltic countries
could be next. That could lead to crisis in the Nordics where Sweden could get
involved.
What would Sweden normally do
in situation like that?
We have never done anything
like that. The worst thing is that I don't believe that anyone is thinking
about the possibility of that happening. This is still something too new for
Sweden to get involved in. It was just a few months ago that Swedish
politicians awoke from their ignorant behavior due to the Ukraine war. And
raised the question about the current problematic situation: What if it would
happen to Sweden's neighboring countries? The new generation of Swedish
politicians has no experience in power politics.
So what would happen if Russia
nuked us?
I can't really say, but one
thing is for sure: as long as you don't have a military defense you're very
vulnerable. And if they wanted to do anything against us, we're in great
danger.
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